Global Knowledge Management and Economy - Nik Zafri

Corpbabes further posted :

First of all, thanks ahvincent and nik zafri for explaining patiently to the issue that i have put forth. Dont worry, I understand the ethical issues that arise, but theoretically, i still have to see things from every issue so that i can write a good research on it.

After taking everything both ahvincent and nik said, correct me if im wrong, but does it mean that during the warranty period, in the event of personal injury and death, the owner wont be fully liable, but he can bring in, say the developer etc as contributory negligent? but after the warranty period, it would be difficult to make the owner liable for any defects that comes up?

Further, on the same thread, can we then exclude design liability? It may take years to discover the defects, but say, from the owner's point of view, can we exclude liability still by contract and also contractually exclude tort after the warranty period is over?

re there any statutory prescriptions in relation to warranty periods for construction works that i spoke about in my first post, nik, you said that would depend on which stage that i'm referring to - pre-construction, during construction and post construction? May i know if there is any statutory prescriptions for all stages of construction?

Many thanks in advance.

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nikzafri's reponse

Let me try : (I’m trying only maaah - so corpbabes – take the following as my personal views…as I may be right and I may be wrong..all is based on experience - and you must excuse me..some of your questions may not be answered - not that I don't know - and I'm sorry)

1. “during the warranty period, in the event of personal injury and death, the owner won’t be fully liable, but he can bring in, say the developer etc as contributory negligent? but after the warranty period, it would be difficult to make the owner liable for any defects that comes up?”

2. “Further, on the same thread, can we then exclude design liability? It may take years to discover the defects, but say, from the owner's point of view, can we exclude liability still by contract and also contractually exclude tort after the warranty period is over?”

No. 1 - I’m sure you remember the Highland Towers Case? It was WAY after the warranty period itself BUT the designer was still being summoned by court.

http://www.lawyerment.com.my/library/doc/laws/casecode/jdgm/11082000-01-1.shtml

Within this civil suit, you can clearly see the consultant (design) consortium (defendants) was still being called to defend itself (not necessarily being charged if proven that the onus of liability is not due to his design)

So, when a case happen, it will relate to one process to another and will start from the Design/Planning stage itself.

Of course, in the process, if the designer will argue to prove that it may or may have nothing to do with his/her design - with sufficient evidence substantiating his/her testimony – if the court is OK with it, then definitely the developer would be the NEXT target (contract may be referred to)

In this stage, probably the answer/onus may lie on the developer or the contractor. Certain things like ‘approving and/or making unlawful (design) deviation’ not according to the ‘approved design brief/specifications/drawings/plans’ or ‘using low-quality materials’ etc. etc. may come into the picture.

It depends really on how the court handle the case judging by evidence submitted. You'll be surprised that the outcome may be a LOT different that what I've said here.

But, I personally think, despite that the owner said that he can bring the developer according to the contractual obligation; yet; by right, being the owner, he should know what’s happening right from the start to the end of the project .

Back to the ‘ugly reality’ the owner would usually ‘wash his hands’ and PUT other parties responsible for the ‘failure’ just because he has all the money but he doesn’t have the experience!

But he should remember that he’s the one who was responsible for appointing the developers (if not himself IS the developer) plus agreeing to the appointment of design consultants (in turnkey/design and build environment). So it would be more effective if the owner IS a technically competent person by qualifications/and/or experience.

When it comes to court’s judgement, it’s very complex to determine ‘who is wrong for what’ as the process of the law is a bit different…too many factors to be considered. Sometimes, the law doesn’t state clearly or citing the examples but there are supporting elements that can be deemed as legal – for example, standards and codes of practice regarding design.

In another situation, the right people you should also be asking would the insurance company on construction insurance – I do not know much about this one but I do know one thing, construction insurance can sometime NOT cover a ‘prototype technology/design’ without any technical documentation, codes of practice/standard, method statements, research etc. to prove that the design is SAFE even after the warranty period. So try the insurance company…

Apart from Insurance, you should also try to pose the question to these ‘guys’ who I considered ‘my e-associates’ as well :

http://pmimy.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=90&forum=2

Nevertheless, You should take this into account as well -.every warranty period has an ‘expiry date’. In some countries, 20 years is sometimes considered ‘dilapidated’, ‘unsafe’ and possibly ‘condemned’. Notice is given and legal action can be taken…

No. 2 – It really depends on the case we’re talking about, how severe the case would be. Usually design liability cannot be excluded even after the warranty period typically ‘in the event of ‘total design or major design failure’ (I’m unsure of personal injury and death – but in Highland Towers – the main focus was the design failure as it involved ‘total structure collapse’ as the 'cause' – then, followed by 'personal injury and death' as the effect - even the effect was associated to legal action taken by immediate family of the deceased..if not, probably there would be no case)

Of course, I’m not referring in view to discover defects related to design after many years of project completion, it wouldn’t be practical (we can’t dismantle or hack what is already being installed and used)

What I’m referring to is actually the documentation/data/forms/supervision during all stages of construction including design data/calculation, design amendment procedures, inspection and testing ,construction methodology/method statements etc. as this should be ‘archived’ safely during the post-construction stage (final accounts) – usually kept by all parties – the client, the developer cum the consultants + the contractor. (again, some data could already be destroyed due to record retention policy...hmmm difficult isn't it?)

Thus, from these documentation/data, we can ‘go back in time’, detect any possible deficiency/how the corrective/preventive actions being taken (right or wrong way)

On the question of whether there is such prescription of statutory, I think my answer has been given in ‘BOLD’ abovementioned. That’s why we have contracts, codes of practice, design coordination, method statements, inspection and test plans etc. – these documentation serve as the professional justifications to the law itself and to assist implementation of the law. Again I would reiterate - in any case..the law prevails.

(Which law? you can easily buy them - 3 titles recommended - Contract Law, Uniformity Building ByLaw and the Engineer's Act)

And YES, (again this is my personal view) it SHOULD be covering ALL STAGES of construction as design is not only during pre-construction – despite being approved – they are still subject to amendment and revision – why? Because of the application based on the actual site condition – there will still be deviations even during and after the construction. (But I’m not implying that the law mention all these very clearly) – Contracts are originally about ‘proclamation of I trust you and vice versa’ and they should be ‘referred’ to the law.

Here’s another unique case you should be looking into :

http://www.contractjournal.com/Articles/2007/01/31/53440/questions-of-law-and-design-liability.html

But alas, there are too many arguments on the subject that you’ve asked. I’m not surprised if some quarters may argue my opinion..so regard what I’ve said here as ‘personal views’ and not representing anyone or any party.